Lorenzo Duval saw Isis Broken for the first time on his cell phone screen, at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. He, a São Paulo rapper, shared his music and reflections on the networks. She is a singer who worked on the album “Bruxa Cangaceira” in Sergipe. All it takes is one message – “How’s your night going?” – so the two can spend the night talking about music, spirituality, and politics. A few weeks later, she bought a ticket and began writing the story of “Apollo.”
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The documentary, directed by Tina Müller and Isis Brocken, will be released in theaters on Thursday, November 27, after receiving awards at the Rio Film Festival (Best Documentary Feature and Original Score) and at the MixBrasil Festival (Best Film from the Popular Jury and Honorable Mention from the Official Jury). “Apollo” follows the pregnancy of Lorenzo, a trans man, and his life alongside Isis, a trans woman and mother of a child who gives the film its name. It thus exposes the institutional transphobia faced by trans parents in Brazil, at the same time as it reveals a historical record and a love letter to the son.
Below, Isis and Lorenzo talk about the behind-the-scenes of pregnancy, the violence and reception found at SUS — and the legacy they hope to leave to their son and the public.
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How did you feel when you received the news of your pregnancy? Lorenzo, have you ever imagined yourself as a father creating life within you? Isis, have you ever imagined yourself as a mother?
Lorenzo: In fact, I never thought about this possibility. I thought that when trans men take testosterone, they become infertile. It is a myth spread in society that was very scary. I wanted to be a father, but I didn’t know how it would happen. My first was a bout of dysphoria, because I had been taking hormones for three years, and I knew that with pregnancy, I would need to stop.
Isis: I never thought about being a mother. I think there is no reference to the transvestite mother. I thought gay people couldn’t reproduce. It is a speech we hear from an early age, but Apollo makes clear that this speech is meaningless.
What are the major barriers in prenatal care?
Lorenzo: Not a lot of things were shown in the film, precisely because the intention wasn’t just to talk about violence. For example, at the beginning of my pregnancy, I went to the hospital because of bleeding, and everywhere they called me by my dead name. The doctor performed a very invasive gynecological exam, an unnecessary touch, and I left with no results.
I also could not do a morphological ultrasound. In the only place they agreed to specify, the doctor was transphobic: he told me to lie on the gurney and “take my panties off.” In the system, there was no option for a man to get prenatal care, so they changed my sex to female to save the appointment. It was always this attempt to fit in biologically, as if my body was wrong.
Some artists like Maya Massafra, Bruno Gagliaso and Nanda Costa offered to help us pay privately, but the clinics thought it was a joke: “Pregnant man, what do you mean?” Then we realized that in the United States or in the private sector, transphobia would emerge. We preferred to stay at SUS to try to change the system, and because we were in São Paulo we got better care at the Trans Outpatient Clinic at UBS Santa Cecília.
Isis: They even told me at the clinic: “Since you are a woman, show me your vagina.” They wanted us to prove it biologically; It was organized transphobia. They said: “It’s not our fault, it’s the system’s fault.” When we left the maternity ward with Apollo, they called me Daddy.
Have you ever been welcomed?
Lorenzo: Just when we met Dr. Emanuel, at the outpatient clinic at UBS Santa Cecilia, in São Paulo. It has changed everything for me, I feel comfortable. He explains to me what is happening to my body, he is not that doctor who doesn’t even look at your face and just prescribes hormones. Dr. Emanuel treats trans people as they should be: naturally, just like cis people. It does the basics, but because we don’t have the basics, it ends up being extraordinary.
Isis: Here in Brazil, for us (trans people) To get decent care, we need to go to a place that specializes in trans health. This also creates a place of alienation, as if we can only receive care in these places. SUS even has the phrase “Health for All.” For whom?
What was the breastfeeding process like?
Lorenzo: Taina (Mueller) She helped us by donating our first pump, a hand pump owned by her son. I breastfed for a month. This was the most I could do, because it affected my mental health so much. I didn’t have a mastectomy and my breasts were growing with milk, which caused me a lot of discomfort. Then Dr. Emmanuel gave me a pill to dry up the milk.
Isis: I didn’t even know that trans women could also breastfeed. Dr. Emanuel gave me studies, including one of a transgender woman in the United States who also breastfed. But the condition for this is that the person must be taking hormones for at least six months. I even took hormones to try to stimulate lactation, but I was unable to breastfeed. It was terrible pain. It looked like he had some knives.
Dedicating the film to Apollo, she says: “Don’t be afraid to be yourself, whoever you are.” What do you want Apollo to understand when he hears these words in the future?
Lorenzo: Isis says this film is a “gift of understanding” for him. We did this so he would know where he came from, who we are, and what the struggle was like to be born. This will help him form his own opinion and, as Taina said, it will be a “weapon” for him to defend himself against society.
Isis: LGBT people live in this state of alert, especially in Brazil, a country that dehumanizes and makes these bodies unstable. This phrase is a message to Apollo: we are here to protect him no matter what. He doesn’t need to be afraid to be him.
What do you hope audiences — especially cis audiences — take away from “Apollo”?
Lorenzo: I think this movie speaks directly to people’s subconscious. It makes the audience look at trans bodies as normal, takes us out of a place of dehumanization and restores our humanity. The word I want people to feel when they leave the session is exactly that: humanity.
Isis: Even among cis citizens there are a great variety of ways to experience sex. My mother, for example, loves pink lipstick. My aunt hates that. They are sisters, from the same family, but they experience sex in completely different ways. The film shows that there is no one way to be. Our “gift of understanding” to Apollo is ultimately understanding for all.