Conclusive, strong, direct. Alessandra Corap (1985), known as Alessandra Munduruku, Brazil’s most influential indigenous activist, expresses herself forcefully. “I want to talk more, I don’t want you to interrupt me,” he said at one point in the interview. Alessandra Munduruku receives elDiario.es on board the ship Imperatriz on the Guama River. Surrounded by her family, in a short break amid her very intense agenda during the UN Climate Change Conference (COP30), Korap talks about indigenous demands, the importance of preserving the forest’s status and not listening to Brazilian President Lula da Silva. “He is deaf, and he is still blind,” he says. “He has not learned enough.”
When the microphone is not on the record, Korab jokes about indigenous people occupying the Blue Zone on the second day of the United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP30). He says with a smile: “The United Nations thought that no one could occupy the Blue Zone, and there we came and occupied it.” In turn, last Friday, the Munduruku people cut off access to the Blue Zone, to demand the demarcation of two areas of indigenous land on the Tapajós River, threatened by gold prospectors, mining companies and a controversial new waterway project. After the siege, Alessandra Corab entered the Blue Zone to negotiate with the government, which immediately demarcated the indigenous lands.
In Brazil, Alessandra Munduruku is a pop music icon. He prints his face on walls, walls and T-shirts. He appears on the covers of fashion magazines. In the world, she is one of the most respected indigenous people. In 2019, he addressed more than 270 people at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin. In 2022, he received the Robert F. Kennedy Human Rights Prize in the United States. In 2023, she was honored with the Goldman Prize, which is considered the Nobel Prize for the environment.
Last Friday, the Munduruku people cut off access to the UN Blue Zone. What are the reasons?
The United Nations says it has 192 countries, and all of these countries do not listen to us. We are in my home, in the Amazon region, in the state of Pará. Some of us have access to space (the blue zone), but we don’t have a voice. I know that efforts are being made to listen to indigenous peoples, but this is not enough. They need to hear more, hear and feel what is happening with the rivers, with the forest, and mainly with the indigenous people.
After the cutting, the Munduruku people were received by Sonia Guajajara (Minister of Indigenous Peoples) and Marina Silva (Minister of the Environment). The government demarcated two indigenous territories in Munduruku. Couldn’t they have done that before?
In Brasilia, the president never listens to us. And now it has approved Decree No. 12600 (a presidential decree that opens the way for the construction of waterways in some Amazon rivers). That’s why we said, we will cut off access to the United Nations now. The rest of the countries are also responsible, because they buy minerals and wood from our lands. They are the ones encouraging the Brazilian government to pass laws and expel us from our lands. They are responsible for killing our river and stopping the demarcation of indigenous lands in Brazil.
On the second day of the COP 30, for the first time in history, the Blue Zone was occupied for negotiations. At that very moment, in one of the main parallel spaces, the police station do Povo, activists celebrated the indigenous entry into the Blue Zone as if it were a soccer World Cup goal. Some have tried to occupy the Blue Zone since the Copenhagen Summit in 2009. How was this achievement achieved?
We have a lot of power. We usually say that we get a lot of energy from the river, from the forest, and from the rituals we perform. This is what motivates us. Enemies make us invisible. When enemies don’t notice us and get lost, we’re already there, doing something that can be seen from all over the planet.
How important is forest conservation to indigenous peoples and to the world’s climate? These days, all indigenous people who have participated in panel discussions or made statements to the media have confirmed that they feel climate change in a strong way…
No mining or oil company cares about the environment. In Europe, people in the cold or in air conditioners, decide to stay in the office. Here, we are already feeling climate change. The earth dries up. When it’s too hot, cassava and açaí burn. Rivers dry up and fish die. We are already feeling the fires and diseases. If the rivers dry up, where do we drink water from? We are forced to buy water because the water has disappeared. They are burning the forest to grow soybeans, and this smoke is worse than São Paulo’s pollution. The Amazon is in chaos because corporations are funding agribusiness to invade our lands.
The Brazilian government has proposed the creation of Fundo Florestas Tropicais em Pé para Semper (TFFF), a global fund for the world to preserve the status of forests. How do you explain to someone from Europe that in most cases, in that permanent forest there are inhabitants, people who take care of the forest, indigenous people, people of African descent, Ribeirinha?
Look, those who came to COP30 from all over the world already knew that Belem is a big city. There are buildings, houses, cars, technologies and planes. indigenous people, hunters, ripierinhos, We were calm. Suddenly the city and the companies arrive and kick us out. They colonize minds with money, because they need to divide us. When the government says it will invest resources, it doesn’t reach us. Health care is risky, and we are sick. Women get sick from gold prospectors’ mercury. And now all these companies are arriving that are invading our lands saying they’re going to save the Amazon…
Beyond public investment, would it be important to get direct funding from Brazil’s proposed Global Fund, which is managed directly by indigenous peoples and local communities who help preserve the forest?
The government believes we are unable to do this. But if we have everything, we are very organized. We have funds, associations, institutes and media. Of course we are able.
Environmental movements from all over the world have come to Belém, but also social movements with the most diverse causes. Do you consider the alliance of indigenous peoples with urban social movements, even from the Global North, important?
Yes, this alliance seems important to me. The city is suffering too. Cities are waking up. Young people are waking up. But it is not enough. We need to stop the advance of capitalism that is killing us. Whoever came to the march (last Saturday’s global climate march) is because they understand the importance of preserving the environment and they know that climate change is happening. I feel very happy when I see that this cry is not only my cry, but the cry of everyone.
A few weeks before the COP, the Brazilian Environmental Institute (IBAMA) launched oil exploration operations near the mouth of the Amazon River. What do you think of the idea of continuing to exploit oil?
When it opens the way for a major project that will harm the environment, rivers and jungle cities, it opens the door for other projects. If there is no prior consultation, as is the case, the right is violated. The violation of nature and indigenous peoples has already begun. If oil spills, who is responsible?
Despite President Lula da Silva’s contradictions, the government, for the first time in history, appointed Sonia Guajajara, Minister of Indigenous Affairs. How do you evaluate Lula’s government in relation to the indigenous population?
President Lula has a lot to learn. His first mistake was building the Belo Monte Dam (referring to the Belo Monte Dam on the Xingu River, built during Dilma Rousseff’s term in office). After that, they tried to prey more on the sacred rivers. Then, in our Tapajos River. They just couldn’t build the dam because we didn’t allow researchers and technicians to pass.
Now he says he listens to the indigenous people, but agrees to privatize our river under Decree No. 12600. Approved oil exploration Ferrograo (The railway line to bring soybeans to the Amazon River from the south). I mean he’s still deaf, he’s still blind. He didn’t learn enough. It does not respect the rights of indigenous people. There is no point in talking about the environment if you do not listen to indigenous peoples.
At the march there were many banners bearing the phrase “eu sou corpo-território” (I am the territory of the body). How do you explain in an educational way to Europeans that indigenous peoples do not consider nature to be something external, but rather a part of their own body?
White people use the Bible and religions. If you hurt this Bible, they will feel like they are hurting their body, right? You hurt his soul. Why can’t we say that the river and the forest are part of our body? If a priest is injured, the whites become angry. If you tear up the Bible, they feel insulted. Why can’t the river be our god? White people don’t understand that the river is a body, it’s land, it’s nature.
A few weeks ago she appeared on the cover of the magazine Vogue magazine. Why did you accept? Was it a reference to women or the feminist movement?
Well, we have to teach men to respect women. They have to leave space for women. About Vogue magazine… I had never heard of it before, because my battle is on the ground, in confrontation. The fashion world must understand that it is necessary to appreciate nature’s products more and help those who need them. There are communities that do not have schools or water. Fashion does not understand that we are fighting for the land that is the river. Fashion people don’t care about the forest and the rivers. They need to change and start talking about nature and traditional people, right?
How do women protect the area?
Everyone knows it, it’s no secret. I don’t walk alone. We decide everything together. We are the ones who do the confronting more often. What happens is that on many occasions we become invisible. I learn a lot from women.
Talk about your image. You have gained a lot of power on social networks. Indigenous peoples are highly organized in communication. They have groups like Among the indigenous people…How important is social media to your cause?
I use it a lot. I use it to showcase our songs, to denounce, to send a message, because sometimes no one wants to hear us. They have become a weapon. Technology helps in our fight. And a lot. I don’t want to be killed after becoming invisible. Now I want to talk about fighting. I want to show everyone our river, our forest, our city.
How can you envision the future?
The future depends on the youth, on the children. If they grow up in universities, in schools, if we teach them at home what it means to respect indigenous peoples, if they use technology to make Amazon conservation visible, the future will improve. If they do not respect us, there will be no territorial demarcation, only the earth will bleed, there will be a disaster and the sky will fall.
About The Author
