Economist and medium-sized entrepreneur, manager of a pig slaughterhouse based in Mataderos, a place that also explains his passion for Nueva Chicago, Gustavo Lazzari This year he undertook an “evangelization” effort about how markets, businesses and the economy work, covering about 70,000 kilometers in one year.
When asked about the election result on the evening of October 26, Lazzari anticipated the positive impact on markets, but also called for a “productive agenda” that he said had only just begun. Chatting with Infobaestressed the importance of the official labor reform project to eliminate “gray areas” that give rise to litigation, which, he stressed, is initiated by the actions of “Carancho” lawyers rather than by the initiative of workers themselves.
— On the night of October 26th, he said that the impact of the election result would be positive, and that was clearly the case, but it marked the Need for a “productive agenda” that takes us out of a “financial agenda”. that “filled us with fear” because it would also generate a lot more dollars. Have you started this agenda?
— In the current situation I say more or less, but if we open the wide angle, I would say yes. We are discussing labor reform and tax reform, there has been a reduction in withholding taxes and productivity issues are being discussed. Has productivity begun? Obviously not. But the exchange rate stabilized and the underlying problems began to be discussed. The situation is very difficult, but there is a competitive agenda. It’s an important series. Many industries may not see it yet because they have time constraints.
— There was a political shift in favor of the government, but economic activity has been stagnating for months. How do you see the balance between an inertia that remains negative, or at best neutral, and this positive expectation?
— We cannot talk about SMEs or economic activity in general. There are engines that are running, sectors that are taking off. With difficulties, because even Vaca Muerta has difficulties, but they are sectors that have begun. I am referring to energy, mining and financial intermediation, which, no matter how much I like them, employ fewer and fewer people and workers. And there are agricultural sectors that are off to a strong start. The meat and peanut industries are doing very well; Low margin dairy works. Before it was stopped. When you say “peanuts,” many people laugh, but the country exports $1.2 billion a year. And that will be an IMF in 10 years. All numbers become relevant at some point. You have to study the sectors well.
“The situation is very difficult, but there is a competitive agenda”
— How does this affect the reforms currently being discussed?
“The Argentine costs are transversal and affect us all.” There are sectors that have not yet started. Therein lies the dilemma: time is running against the sector that hasn’t started. You need – we need – a different speed of reform. In the case of labor reform, for some sectors the title is enough, it gives them a perspective, and for many of us the text is not enough. We need it to be very good and fast. It is something natural in any reconstruction process.
— Reconstruction?
– Yes. Sometimes we don’t realize that Argentina is in the process of rebuilding. I believe that 2026 is the year of harmonization of sectors and we all need to start working better. I think it will happen, but I want to take the word “easy” out of the dictionary because it confuses people. It won’t be easy for a long time. The collapse in Argentina is very profound. This year I have covered 48,000 kilometers by road, plus 22,000 by plane. I focused on eight, ten provinces and was in small, medium and large cities. We destroyed the infrastructure, we destroyed the work culture. In several cities I was told that there was no way to find someone to work, even with a good salary. Difficult habits were broken. There is a lot to do. It will be difficult for all of us to see the beauty of the job. I’m 59 and I think I’ll see it, but there’s still a lot to rebuild. I don’t care who’s to blame. For me it doesn’t add up. There is still a lot of work ahead of us. As a hopeful fact, I say that we have more than enough material for this. I don’t have the slightest doubt about that.
— What is the most important thing about labor reform?
— I took an entire Sunday to read it in print, highlight things, consult laws and articles cited in the text, and talk on the phone to my lawyer so he could explain the concepts to me. My conclusion is that there are many more highlights than shadows. It is a very acceptable and very necessary reform. The most important thing is that it helps – I’m not saying it definitely does, but it does help – to clarify the gray areas that lead to judgments. Employment law suits are initiated because of gray areas, not because an employer is sneaky. They are usually due to gray areas that are not precisely defined, such as salary or activity. Is a carrier an employee? Here he tells you that he is an employee, a supplier. Done, you can’t attempt to work. To be hired, you must be on the payroll. Something like that is very important because that’s where the exams start. The compensation is not limited to the limit of around twelve months that I would like. This will finally end the testing industry. But it contains an adjustment clause. Today there is an interest rate per court for the penalty adjustment. They are graveyards of SMEs. The bill states: Degree programs will be adjusted by a fixed interest rate, inflation plus 3%. There is a certainty about how far you can reach a “quilombo”. It is very important.
“In the case of labor reform, for some industries the title is enough, it gives them perspective, and for many of us the text is not enough.”
— Because?
“If I scratch a car, the judge will probably say I have to pay, but he won’t give me life or let me pay for a new car.” The following happens in a work process: An employee with three or four years of service, a good lawyer, a good excuse, a fairly unstable court, ends up in a $200 million lawsuit that destroys a maxi kiosk or an SME. In this context, if you believe that a working relationship can end badly, you most likely won’t start it. This law helps reduce this risk. And there are other very important measures, such as the fixing of fees for experts and the establishment of medical commissions to give certainty to trials in cases of industrial accidents, a very important issue. Today the expert calculates a percentage of the penalty. The incentive is therefore to make the penalty as high as possible. This converts a 1% disability rate into a 20% disability rate, or a process that could take three months takes three years and is payable at a high interest rate. There are a whole range of perverse incentives.
— In your opinion, in the case of an SME, what is the perception of employees on this labor law debate?
— I usually don’t talk to boys about politics, out of respect for their ideas and so that they don’t feel pressured by mine. However, it is important to make it clear that there is nothing in this project that speaks against the rationality of an employment relationship. These are things that normally happen, like vacation splits. That’s poorly worded because it means you have to go on vacation every three years in the summer. In my company, the holidays are decided by the guys. The only thing I tell them and check is not to neglect sectors. If there are three employees in one, all three cannot leave at the same time. And people are very rational, they put it together better than I did. If they don’t agree, I act as a referee. This is normal in SMEs.
“There are things I don’t like, things I can’t quite digest, and things that are missing, but what is suggested is better than what is there.”
— But why are there so many attempts?
—In public debate, the employer is the worst guy in the world. But the reality is that SME owners are rational and employees are completely rational. Labor law lawsuits are rarely initiated by employees, but rather from outside. And when the vulture eats, it not only eats the boss, but also the employee. I’ve seen it all in employment lawsuits. What needs to be reduced are the incentives. When there is a problem, what matters is not that one party eats the other, but that justice prevails. Go to an institutional system that allows for fair and prompt justice, that no one commits excesses, that there are no unproductive incentives, and that neither the company nor the employees – not even the lawyers – are demonized. The system rotted, it became addictive in a very brutal way. That’s why this modernization is necessary. I repeat: there are things that I don’t like, that I can’t quite digest, and things that are missing, but what is proposed is better than what is there.
— What do you think about the change in the announcement of the change in the adjustment of the exchange rate bands and a reserve purchase program?
— Updating the band does not mean that the exchange rate is increasing. No need to worry, it’s on the menu; The dollar is within the new range at $1,500. In addition, the government’s intention to accumulate reserves suggests two things: it wants to appear more solid and increase the level of activity a little. With the issuance, more reserves are paid, and when people have a certain level of confidence, they do not throw out the pesos but put them in the banks. These pesos are suitable and the activity can be made more environmentally friendly. Not because the emission is reactivated, but because it would occur in a context of trust.
— Do you see this as a pragmatic government?
– Yes, in a context in which a historic law such as labor reform is proposed and taxes are reduced. A little reduction in withholding tax, some taxes in the labor reform law, accelerated depreciation of capital assets… Every time taxes are cut I raise my antenna.
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