The aim is for the COP30 final document to recognize indigenous lands as global climate policies

In a phone interview with the blogger, Sonia also highlighted the large presence of indigenous leaders who were directly involved in the negotiations. “This is the original Conference of the Parties, and it is more than just a name. It is a milestone in representation and leadership,” he said.

When we spoke previously, you were in New York and you said you were planning to receive the largest Indigenous delegation in the history of the COPs. Was this goal achieved?

Sonia Guajajara – Yes, this happens. Only Brazil has actually surpassed the highest number, 350. Brazil alone has at least 400 certified indigenous people. We still do not have a specific number of other countries, but there are representations of many peoples.

And many of them get access to commercial areas, right?

Yes. We have an indigenous group directly involved in thematic discussions with the negotiators. This is important progress, because it puts indigenous peoples in the decision-making process.

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At the opening of the conference, President Lula stressed the importance of indigenous lands, a topic that you have always advocated. What could this mean?

President Lula is committed to indigenous lands and recognizes that Brazil was entirely indigenous and that these lands were appropriated and should be returned to the indigenous people. This progress will not be repeated due to the legal obstacles that the National Conference was able to approve, even after the presidential veto was abolished, as is the case with Law No. 12701, which sets the time frame. However, Lula recognizes the importance of territories and indigenous peoples, both for life and material and cultural reproduction, as defined by the Federal Constitution, and for confronting the climate crisis.

The Indigenous Peoples Movement coordinated with the President’s advisors, MRE and MMA so that these themes were present in his speech, while publicly declaring the importance of Indigenous lands. This represents an important step towards further progress in this climate discussion, with indigenous peoples and territories considered as mitigation measures.

But is including the demarcation of indigenous lands as a climate policy in Brazil’s NDCs still a step too far?

We have advanced this discussion. Today, the National Indigenous Contributions proposal, created by the Indigenous Movement in partnership with the Indigenous Movement and the Indigenous Movement, will be analyzed by the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Climate Change. This is progressing, yes. At this COP, no new topics are being discussed, but steps are being taken so that, in the update of Brazil’s NDCs, the topic of border demarcation and land protection can be included as a mitigation measure and as a significant contribution to the country achieving its goals of eliminating deforestation.

How do other countries view the debate over indigenous lands?

I believe that important progress was made at the Leaders’ Summit, which I was able to participate in over the course of two days. It was both surprising and encouraging to see all countries talking about the importance of indigenous peoples, the role they play in climate, indigenous lands, and the need to ensure direct funding for these peoples. It was very positive to see progress on this topic at the leaders’ meeting, because throughout history it has always been a secondary or even non-existent agenda. Now, we have succeeded in putting the indigenous agenda at the heart of the climate discussion at this COP.

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Are you satisfied with the initial results of TFFF?

We have links with Norway, France and Portugal – which have contributed resources to the Tropical Forests Forever Fund (TFFF) – as well as other rich countries. We are also in dialogue with Indonesia, which has begun discussing territorial recognition, with the Congo Basin countries and with Kenya.

More than 70 countries participate in TFFF discussions. Brazil, in cooperation with the Ministry of Forestry and the Ministry of Finance, organizes the participation of these countries in the mechanism and submits proposals to protect forests, while rich countries determine the amount of donations they can make.

I think it was an important start. It was a start where on the first day we were able to contribute US$5.5 billion, and we continued coordination and dialogue with other countries so they could allocate more resources. We understand this first moment as a step to encourage countries to contribute their resources, and there is a very good and very optimistic appreciation that there will still be further contributions.

The difference with this financial assistance fund mechanism is that we actually ensure that at least 20% of all contributed resources will be transferred directly to indigenous peoples and their organizations. This truly represents a major advance and a difference to all other mechanisms. There is also this commitment: each country must sign up to receive the resources and guarantee the transfer of 20%.

Before the conference, there were criticisms and doubts about holding the COP30 conference in Belém. How do you evaluate the organization and atmosphere of the first days?

I think everything, from our side, the indigenous peoples, will work out, because this is the first time that indigenous peoples are not only present at the COP, but are at the heart of global decisions.

The Indigenous, Territories and Forests agenda is at the heart of the decisions. So, from this point of view, it is already a success. Now, it is important to understand that there are many challenges to reaching consensus that must be reached at the end of the COP, when agreements and commitments are announced.

We are working together so that, ultimately, there is recognition of indigenous lands and demarcation of indigenous lands as climate policy, because ultimately we are talking about lands that take into account different dimensions: land lands, forest lands, marine lands and oceans, which is also a key topic.

We actually believe this is the original COP and it is much more than just a name. It is a milestone in acting and heroism.

We must coordinate these two weeks to help raise awareness among countries, so that these consensuses can be reached. There are many topics to discuss, and everyone will defend their interests, but Brazil is building this roadmap, as President Lula said and as Minister Marina has always said, which is the roadmap to the end of deforestation and the end of fossil fuels.