“Words like ‘populism’, ‘dictatorship’, ‘fascism’ or ‘socialism’ are used carelessly”

-What concepts or variables allow us to understand the crises of democracies that are currently being talked about so much?

-There are many authors who claim that there is a crisis of democracy. But first we must examine the state of democracy to find out whether such a crisis exists. And I’m not sure that’s the case, although there are very serious problems in cases like the United States. If we look at Latin America, there have been several crises since the transition in the 1980s and 1990s. In addition, since 2015, there has been an erosion of democracy in some countries in the region. Certain elected leaders concentrate power and overwhelm the institutions of justice and government. Although these rulers were initially popular, when they lost popularity they used their power to rig elections.

– Does this allow us to talk about a crisis of democracy and not about democracy?

– People are not satisfied with democracy. But I don’t see that a system change is being considered. Unlike the Cold War, there is no attractive alternative today. Few people want their countries to look like Cuba, Venezuela or Nicaragua. Likewise, there are problems in Latin American democracies that need to be addressed.

– A long time ago you wrote that democracies are on the defensive. What can those in power and societies do to get out of this situation?

-We need to think about the future and discuss how we can strengthen democracy. It is important that citizens reconnect with politics and feel represented. We need to consider a series of political reforms aimed at balancing the relationship between the executive branch and Congress, giving independence to the judicial system and electoral authorities, and institutionalizing political parties. Furthermore, we need a broader agenda that takes into account two macrostructures: the state and the economy. With Latin American countries and functioning economies, we will experience more political crises. It is necessary to think about structural reforms.

-What is the problem of the state?

-Latin American states have what Max Weber called patrimonial characteristics. That is, rulers sometimes act as if they are owners of the state structure rather than an instrument for carrying out large public projects. For this reason, there is a tendency towards corruption and politicization of the state, which affects society’s trust in political action. There is another key issue that directly affects democracy: the role of electoral authorities. When politicians try to manipulate them, the electoral process, the most fundamental aspect of democracy, is jeopardized. It is therefore necessary that there are states based on law.

-How is your proposal related to democracy and development?

-If we look at the region from an economic perspective, one of the notable problems is the low economic growth, at least since 2015. Added to this are issues of social inclusion and environmental sustainability. Democracy and development are strengthened when they complement each other. And for this, democracy must serve to discuss proposals for an economic development model that overcomes the problems associated with current economic policies.

-Are classic political categories, for example left-right dualism, useful in explaining 21st century politics?

-Yes, I think so. The left and the right have different values: the left places more value on equality and the right places more value on individual freedom. They also differ in the role they assign to the state: those on the left believe in the role of the state, those on the right are more committed to the free market. Nowadays, however, people vote not only with their wallets but also for other reasons, such as women’s right to abortion. In this sense, to understand the political categories and to know where to position the different actors, it is necessary to take into account the cultural variable and not only the economic variable. However, the classic concepts of left and right still serve us.

– These days we often talk about “populism” and the “New Right”. Do you think these concepts are related?

-Populisms in Latin America have historically been left-leaning. Examples include the governments of Perón in Argentina, Vargas in Brazil and Cárdenas in Mexico. In this century, Chávez in Venezuela is another example. In fact, the region is best known for its left-wing populism: governments are close to the people, have little institutional mediation and are critical of business elites and foreign powers. Now, with the new right, we have populisms with a different political color in both Europe and the United States. And similar governments have recently emerged in Latin America, for example in Brazil with Bolsonaro and in Argentina with Milei. It is important to recognize that not all of these new right-wing governments pose a threat to democracy, as is the case with Trump.

-Why do you think different adjectives have been associated with the concept of democracy in recent decades?

-Adjectives are sometimes associated with democracy to talk about elements of democracy itself, such as when talking about low-quality democracies. In other cases, reference is made to other aspects of political life that are not necessarily constitutive of democracy. These concepts are useful for describing variations in the universe of democracies. I would also like to emphasize that there is a basic democracy and that it is advisable to develop a consensus on what is meant by democracy. Such an agreement plays a key role in defending democracy and determining which leaders or countries are democratic and which are not.

-Incidentally, some sectors tend to label governments that take actions they disagree with as “dictatorship” or “undemocratic”.

-Yes, there is a tendency to label leaders who support public policies that are not what one wants as dictators, even if those leaders act within the rules of democracy. It seems wrong to me that words like “dictatorship” or “fascism” are used carelessly in political discussion. That doesn’t help the discussion. It raises the temperature but not the clarity of the debates. Polarized. We need to distinguish more clearly between the criteria used to categorize countries as democratic or non-democratic and the criteria that affect our ideological preferences and our values. The practice of using the flag of democracy to criticize those who do not share our ideology and values ​​devalues ​​the concept of democracy.

Gerardo L Munck is a political scientist and professor at the University of Southern California. His recent publications include “Progress in the Social Sciences: Scientific Research and the Quest for Knowledge about Democracy” (forthcoming); Latin American Sociopolitical Thought: Social Sciences and Humanities Through the Ages (with Martín Tanaka, 2023); Latin American Politics and Society: A Comparative and Historical Analysis (with Juan Pablo Luna, 2022); Critical Turning Points and Historical Legacies: Insights and Methods for Comparative Social Science (with David Collier, 2022); and An Institutional Trap of Medium Quality: Democracy and State Capacity in Latin America (with Sebastián L. Mazzuca, 2020). He was part of the team that produced the United Nations Development Program (UNDP) report “Democracy in Latin America.” Towards a Citizens’ Democracy (2004) and the second regional report prepared by UNDP and OAS, Our Democracy (2010).